Lotus name ready for return to F1

**A7ESK** Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:33 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8084475.stm

The historic Lotus name is poised to return to Formula 1 after submitting an entry for the 2010 championship.

Eddie King Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Suspect

**Trigger** Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:45 pm

Okay now I'm for the budget capping! Very Happy

**GrumpyBodger** Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:52 pm

I ditto that Eddie,

What no loud rumblings coming from a corner of Norfolk, are they all asleep down there? Shocked

Proton will be pleased

Litigation immediately springs to mind!
Or has someone with a swollen imagination dreamt up a nice little wind up?

My flabber is gasted
John

**Trigger** Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:10 pm

Reading the article more and it appears by the way the BBC have written it that Team Lotus have got a team together or at least in the pipeline, with one of my favourite drivers Jonny Herbert joining the new team as driver manager and global commercial ambassador? Who would be financing the new team though? If it doesn't come from any direct link with Lotus Cars themselves then I can't see that Proton will be involved although saying that Proton have recently entered the WRC Rally Championships and dare I say it seem to be one of the very few car manufacturers in the World at the moment that haven't been suffering from the financial deficit.

JUNE 6, 2009
The return of Team Lotus

Litespeed has announced that it intends to enter F1 in 2010 under the Team Lotus banner. The team says that a deal has been truck with David Hunt to use the name he has been trying to revive since 1995. The team has also agreed a deal to employ former Lotus F1 driver Johnny Herbert as a driver manager and commercial ambassador. The team will have a car designed by Mike Gascoyne and will operate out of the former Racing Technology Norfolk (RTN) facility in Hingham, Norfolk. This was previously the headquarters of the TOM'S GB team, but actually started out housing the Percival Hodges F1 powerboat team in the early 1980s. It was sold to TOM'S in 1987 and two years later was upgraded when TOM'S tried to lure Toyota into F1. A TOM'S F1 car was designed but never built and after Toyota rejected the idea of F1 Barnard went to Ferrari. TOM'S later sold the facility to Audi and it became known as RTN and built the Bentley sports cars which won the Le Mans 24 Hours. In 2007 it was sold to a company called Express Composites but proved to be bigger than was needed and closed down.

The team is to be run by Litespeed's Nino Judge, who will be team principal and Steve Kenchington, the director of engineering. Both men are former Team Lotus engineers.

"I am Norfolk born and bred," Mike Gascoyne says. "For me to continue my F1 career under the banner of the Team Lotus name and help to bring it back to its deserving place in the world championship is a fantastic feeling and something that I am extremely proud to be doing."

**GrumpyBodger** Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:55 pm

Hi Chris,

I think I'm missing something here.
The piece you posted was an interesting read & I feel a lot better informed, thanks.
However apart from a couple of ex-Lotus engineers being involved, which is good, I don't see any connection between the proposed Lotus F1 team & Lotus Cars, Lotus Engineering or whatever.
So is there a connection to the Lotus we know or the Cars we all drive; it doesn't appear so?
This will be an other space to watch.
Has there been any reaction from the Lotus factory yet?

Apart from that "number 6" for Jenson, 'aint it great Very Happy

Cheers
John

**Trigger** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:15 pm

I think it's very much a private investment with some good names backing them. It is Litespeed that has announced that it will use the historic Lotus name for its attempt to enter Formula 1 next season.

**rocket63** Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:20 pm

Litespeed own the rights to the "Team Lotus" name only. David Hunt purchased the rights when Team Lotus originally went into liquidation.

There is absolutely no affiliation or association to Lotus in any shape or fashion.

It means noting at all.

It might just as well be "Team Misnomer"

**Trigger** Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:05 pm

rocket63 wrote:Litespeed own the rights to the "Team Lotus" name only. David Hunt purchased the rights when Team Lotus originally went into liquidation.

There is absolutely no affiliation or association to Lotus in any shape or fashion.

It means noting at all.

It might just as well be "Team Misnomer"

It is correct and the problem I have is that with the Lotus name maybe returning to Formula 1 is that like Paul said it doesn't have any connection to Lotus at all, apart from a few ex Lotus engineers. It sounds more and more like Litespeed are planning to use the name to push their bid to enter F1 above others that are set to enter such as USA F1.

**rocket63** Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:04 pm

You will also find the Brabham name floating around also as a 2010 entry I believe.

**the83man** Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:07 am

I think that we would all like to see the Lotus name back on the F1 grid wouldn't we? This is a recurring rumour, of course, the last iteration being that VW/Audi were going to buy Lotus from Proton as they want to get into F1 but feel that the Lotus name would be more appropriate for an Audi GP car.

This is something completely different though and, if the capped cost idea can be maintained, should allow more, less well funded teams, other than the grandee manufacturers, into the fray. Personally I think it would be great for Lotus/Proton and F1 in general. Having had a drive in an Evora this weekend I'd say their prospects of making money are looking up.........

Also the BBC news item includes this line:
"We've secured the lease to the RTN factory in Hingham near to Lotus and we've been in discussion with Lotus and [their parent company] Proton." Not too meaningful but clearly an attempt to get Lotus/Proton involvment.

One more thing - the factory in question is no back-street billy. They built the Le Mans winning Bentley and have always been staffed by ex Team Lotus personel. Don't write them off.

Finally - Trivia quiz! What was the last GP car to wear a Lotus badge and what was its last race?

**TimS** Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:42 am

I left my F1 annorak at home so I'm not sure of the answer but I guess it was a yellow one with Camel sponsorship Question

, but never the less, I bet our man in Germany will know Rolling Eyes

Lotus back in F1...that's got to be just brilliant in whatever form it takes, I wonder - will the team principal be allowed to run on to the track and throw his hat in the air when they win...probably not, Ferrari may run him over (if they are still racing) Exclamation

.

Cheers, Tim

**Atthelimit** Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:43 pm

The last gp car to wear a Lotus badge was the Pacific PR02 and I think it last appearance was Australia 95?

Back to Lotus in F1 and Brabham for that matter, I think the reasons that people are keen to use these names are two fold:-

1) To be associated with glories past and the kudos the name still commands, its good for media coverage etc.

2) I am not sure if this still holds good in this cost capping environment but using or resurrecting a team that had previously taken part in GP racing meant that you did not have to pay the retained deposit to Bernie and co which was required for "new" teams. Team Lotus was a registered team and so there was a big cost implicatiion involved running into many millions of pounds. As I said I am not sure that is still the case now that the cost cap is going to be introduced but it would not surprise me if the capping did not include this deposit just as it does not cover drivers salaries, entertainment etc etc.

Kim

**GrumpyBodger** Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:58 pm

the83man wrote:I think that we would all like to see the Lotus name back on the F1 grid wouldn't we? This is a recurring rumour, of course, the last iteration being that VW/Audi were going to buy Lotus from Proton as they want to get into F1 but feel that the Lotus name would be more appropriate for an Audi GP car.

This is something completely different though and, if the capped cost idea can be maintained, should allow more, less well funded teams, other than the grandee manufacturers, into the fray. Personally I think it would be great for Lotus/Proton and F1 in general. Having had a drive in an Evora this weekend I'd say their prospects of making money are looking up.........

Also the BBC news item includes this line:
"We've secured the lease to the RTN factory in Hingham near to Lotus and we've been in discussion with Lotus and [their parent company] Proton." Not too meaningful but clearly an attempt to get Lotus/Proton involvment.

One more thing - the factory in question is no back-street billy. They built the Le Mans winning Bentley and have always been staffed by ex Team Lotus personel. Don't write them off.

Finally - Trivia quiz! What was the last GP car to wear a Lotus badge and what was its last race?

OK I guess it was a "Litespeed" Laughing

I'm sorry but an F1 car built by anyone other than Lotus & calling it a Lotus just doesn't float my boat at all.
What's wrong with Audi building an F1 car & calling it an Audi?
If they wanted to use an historic name they could do worse than using "Auto Union".

Last but not least; what pleasure can be gleaned from an F1 team calling themselves Lotus (regardless of how good they are) that has no or little connection with "Lotus"?
It's like wearing a fake Rolex; tells the time well but it 'aint no Rolex.
Sorry, this Ships leaving Port without me Cool

Just my oppinion & nothing personal here Wink

Cheers
John

**the83man** Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:15 am

GrumpyBodger wrote: OK I guess it was a "Litespeed" ......
.......I'm sorry but an F1 car built by anyone other than Lotus & calling it a Lotus just doesn't float my boat at all.

John,,Kim got the trivia right - it was the Pacific 02 in 1995 (I wonder if I told him that before or is he as mad as I am????)

As for the second comment I think it is fair to say ever was it thus. Team Lotus was set up as a separate company in the mid fifties and as soon as Lotus moved to Cheshunt Team Lotus was in a separate building. The move to Ketteringham Hall in the early seventies completed the severance so that the only real link was the badge and a certain Mr Chapman and even that link was removed in 1982....

The same comment could be said about the names McLaren, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Toyato, Honda (oops Brawn), and so on.

I know what you mean but I think you are being over sensitive.

**GrumpyBodger** Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:03 pm

the83man wrote:
GrumpyBodger wrote: OK I guess it was a "Litespeed" ......
.......I'm sorry but an F1 car built by anyone other than Lotus & calling it a Lotus just doesn't float my boat at all.

The same comment could be said about the names McLaren, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Toyato, Honda (oops Brawn), and so on.

I know what you mean but I think you are being over sensitive.

Yup know what you mean Mike.
Must learn to relax a bit more Smile

Wanders off to quiet corner, crying into beer Very Happy

**Atthelimit** Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:48 pm

Mike, no you did not tell me, I really am that sad.

Back to Lotus in F1, I would like to see the name back, especialkly if they cashed in on the history side and the cars livery reflected a link to Lotus of old in some way. Whilst it's a long shot if Lotus Litespeed were winning the Kudos of F1 would do Lotus cars no harm at all would it.

I am in favour of cost capping and would like to see new teams come in and on that basis maybe they could compete well, that's why I am not in favour of a two tier rule book as it should be a level playing field. But.... I can see how the big teams McLaren, Ferrari, Renault etc need time to manage the reduction in their work force and resources so obviously a transition period is needed.

It should also mean that we get some upcoming, exciting and less "corperate" drivers who I guess will not be being paid squillions of pounds and who will really go for it when they get their chance, if you watch the GP2 racing its certainly exciting, brave (foolish) overtaking moves from miles back into gaps that don't exist!

Mike here's one for you.
What Lotus was manufactured under licence in Argentina using Alfa engines?

kim

**the83man** Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:32 pm

Kim,

You are sad........

I know that Sevens were produced in Argentima (about 30 of them and with Colin Chapman's blessing) but I thought they had FIAT engines (1500) rather than Alfa. Is that what you mean?

I'm away from home at the moment so can't do any proper research......... That's my excuse !

**Trigger** Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:05 pm

Looks like it's official then ... Lotus are in no way connected to this rumour of Team Lotus entering F1. The one thing that we knew and is now confirmed is that it is the Team Lotus name being used to push Litespeed's bid for Formula 1 entry. This isn't to say I wouldn't back them if they are successful but it is a shame.

Group Lotus plc wrote:10th June 2009

Team Lotus and 2010 Formula 1

Group Lotus plc and its subsidiary Lotus Cars Limited, the manufacturer of the iconic Lotus Elise and global high technology engineering consultancy, are not connected or affiliated to, nor in any other way associated with the newly announced "Team Lotus" that has submitted an entry for the 2010 Formula 1 championship. Group Lotus plc will take all necessary steps to protect its name, reputation and brand image.

Lotus will continue to focus on the tremendous worldwide opportunities that exist for its core businesses. Lotus Cars has recently launched the stunning new Evora 2+2 global sportscar to great acclaim and deliveries to the first customers are imminent. The company is pulling all stops to ensure production meets demand. Lotus Engineering, one of the market leaders in automotive green transport solutions, is currently working with many of the world's vehicle manufacturers on state of the art projects with plans of growth in its international targeted markets such as Malaysia, China, USA and India.

**Simon Hough** Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:20 pm

Sure this isn't what Colin would have wanted........

Group Lotus are always keen to harp on about it's F1 pedigree ???????? Maybe they will take legal action over the paper towel company who are also called Lotus ! I bet if Brawn wanted to rename as Lotus they wouldn't mind too much !

Lotus company not behind 'Team Lotus'

By Mark Glendenning

Wednesday, June 10th 2009, 19:49 GMT

Group Lotus plc and its subsidiary Lotus Cars Limited have moved to distance themselves from the recently-announced "Team Lotus" that has submitted an entry for the 2010 Formula 1 world championship, and signaled that they are prepared to take action to protect the Lotus brand name.
British Formula 3 squad Litespeed, which was founded by former Lotus employees Nino Judge and Steve Kenchington, announced last week that it wished to enter F1 next year under the Lotus banner.
Permission to use the Lotus name had apparently been granted by rights-holder David Hunt, however the Lotus company challenged that in a statement released today.
"Group Lotus plc and its subsidiary Lotus Cars Limited, the manufacturer of the legendary Lotus Elise and global high technology engineering consultancy, are not connected or affiliated to, nor in any other way associated with the newly-announced 'Team Lotus' that has submitted an entry 2010 Formula 1 championship," the statement said.
"Group Lotus plc will take all necessary steps to protect its name, reputation and brand image."
The news follows a similar statement issued by the Brabham family last week indicating that it intended to challenge Formtech's plans to enter F1 using its name.

**GrumpyBodger** Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:16 pm

Found this bit elsewhere.

Cheers
John

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/06/ ... litespeed/

**GrumpyBodger** Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:35 pm

Hi Simon,

There's already a thread running on this subject so please don't take my comments here personally.

Perhaps someone who knows how can transfer this to it?

Call them stick in the muds but Lotus seems to share my view on this.
Sorry guys I meant that the other way around of course Laughing

Brawn have shown that an "established name" is not a fundamental requirement for acceptance or success.
Force India, Red Bull etc. likewise.
OK Brawn may be respected & fairly well known in some quarters Wink

A few years ago Lotus were also the new kids on the block & managed to do quite well without adopting some other brand name.
Could we also see the names BRM, Vanwall, Lola, March etc. resurected in the same way? If so to what ends? Rolling Eyes

Cheers
John

**Atthelimit** Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:17 pm

Mike, I'm pretty sure they were alfa engines but I stand to be corrected, althought there was an Eleven with a fiat 600 engine in that I've got some pictures of.

Even sadder pale

Kim

**Trigger** Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:42 am

GrumpyBodger wrote:Hi Simon,
There's already a thread running on this subject so please don't take my comments here personally.
Perhaps someone who knows how can transfer this to it? John

This is sounding like Moderator status Laughing

I will keep on top of the house keeping for you all though Very Happy

**GrumpyBodger** Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:17 am

Trigger wrote:
GrumpyBodger wrote:Hi Simon,
There's already a thread running on this subject so please don't take my comments here personally.
Perhaps someone who knows how can transfer this to it? John

This is sounding like Moderator status I will keep on top of the house keeping for you all though

Well that's what you are Chris & rightly put.
Sorry if I jumped the gun; I respect your good work Smile

Cheers
John

**GrumpyBodger** Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:19 pm

The latest report:-

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/f1_2010_entrants.aspx

Cheers
John

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